Well, it seemed amazing that the International Christian Churches could set up a whole university in a couple of weeks, and even decorate founder Kip McKean with a doctorate degree almost as quickly.
How did they do it? Easy!
IT'S. NOT. ACCREDITED!
That means, any "degrees" it issues are COMPLETELY IMAGINARY and not worth a 5 cents. The ICCM is NOT A REAL SCHOOL.
It did seem a bit suspicious that Kip could earn a Ph.D. without going through the normal years-long process of research, writing a thesis, getting it reviewed by a panel of Ph.D.'s, defending the thesis, etc.
From an email sent out from ICCM in response to an inquiry:
"We have been given an accreditation exemption from the state of California and therefore the degrees we offer are under no accrediting boards, save our own. Any degree/credential given by our seminary would be accepted only within our family of churches. Our Bachelor's degree would not, for example, be transferable or serve as a pre-requisite to another seminary's Master's degree program." (Bolding mine).
I wonder how much they are charging the members for these excellent services?
Interestingly, the above email seems to contradict the message currently on its Facebook page: "At present [the ICCM] confers the degrees of Bachelors, Masters and Doctorates in Ministry."
Omitting the tiny detail that the "degrees" are 100% WORTHLESS everywhere except in their church of 2,000. You have a doctorate degree - because Kip McKean SAYS you have a graduate degree! And in the ICC, that's what matters most.
But they are, like, a totally real, and awesome - AWESOME - school! They even have, like, their own web site! Well, not like a real website, but, you know, like a whole Facebook page and everything! That's, like, totally legit!
I thought I read in one of the ICC's Good News Bulletins that they are charging students 6K to attend the ICCM?!? I guess Kip and his cronies aren't making enough on Special Missions in April and November, jubilees, conferences, Women's Days and countless retreats in between that members are required to attend and pay for out of pocket. I wonder how much kick back the "DYNAMIC" (per Kip's description) ICCM board/staff are getting? Maybe it's time we start asking Michael Kirchner, Andrew Smellie, Chris Adams, Helen Sullivan, Kyle Bartholomew and Tim Kernan what they're being paid.
ReplyDeleteWow!!
DeleteSix thousand a year for a fake degree! You can join the Universal Life Church and get a Doctor of Divinity degree for $30.00. I did that once just to see what it was like. It is a piece of paper and absolutely worthless.
DeletePrior to this, I went to a real ATS accredited seminary (actually 3 of them over a period of 10 years). It was hard. There is nothing easy about REAL graduate level work. Learning Koine Greek is hard. Studying the history of theology is hard. Learning the flow of church history is hard. So Kip has decided to forego the hard work, award himself a Doctorate of Ministry (D.Min.) degree, and sell the other degrees at 6K per year. If you go 4 years to get a BA. That is 24K for a piece of paper which will mean nothing outside the LA Kip Church (or his family of churches).
Thanks, but real degrees require study and sacrifice by accredited institutions and professors who actually know something.
Cryptoreformer, by the way, I have not heard of any degree there taking over 12 months. Many degrees have been issued without even taking any classes at all! That includes Kip McKean and others. That is one of the benefits of not being accredited and putting appearances over substance - you can make your own rules and obtain "results" much quicker and more easily.
DeleteCorrection to the above...it's 6K a year. Found the info on the ICCM Facebook page. Member (Beach Eastwood) asks how much the ICCM course is and the site administrator responded with 6K per year payable by cash or check and then suggests that Beach get a sponsor to help pay the cost. According to the recent Good News e-mail, there are 80 students currently enrolled. This means Kip and his "Dynamic" ICCM staff are pulling in almost half a MILLION dollars for this bogus school. WOW!!!
ReplyDeleteWOW and Double WOW!! Thanks for sharing!!
DeleteAny ICCM Bachelor's student working for the church (paid or self-supporting) does not pay, so there are few students paying $6,000 a year. Most of the people teching and on the board already work for the church in another capacity and choose to volunteer their time to work for the college.
DeleteFor the record, Kip's school the ICCM is NOT an ACCREDITED institution!!! Kip and his cronies basically obtained a "license" to open shop via the California Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) which is a unit of the California Department of Community Affairs and has NOTHING to do with accrediting schools/universities. Basically, anyone in the state of California can start a private school as long as it meets the BPPE's bare minimum standards/requirements. An actual accreditation is obtained through a national or regional accrediting body recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. So when Kip, Tim Kernan and especially Mike Patterson claim the ICCM is "accredited" they are shamelessly deceiving not only its members but all the families who attend their loved ones' ICCM graduation ceremony believing they earned a valid degree.
DeleteAs a side note, can someone please tell Mike Patterson that:
Delete1) He is NOT a professor. Technically, in order to secure the title of "Professor" a person must have a doctoral degree in their field issued from an accredited university which the ICCM is not.
2) There is no such thing as "different levels" of educational accreditation (like Mike ignorantly claimed on a FB post) when it pertains to post secondary institutions. They're either accredited or they're not.
LOL! Mike Patterson also claims he is a world renowned speaker, best selling author and performance artist (insert hysterical laughing emoji here) Just remember, this is the same guy who created a fake Face Book account posing as a female to cat fish his wife (Can you say, WEIRDO?!?). Since Mike loves top 10 lists, someone needs to make one counting off the top 10 reasons he's a D.W.E.E.B.!
DeleteHey guys-Just FYI if anyone associated with the ICCM on a staff level (eg. like Tim Kernan the Vice Chancellor of Operations and Mike Patterson the "president" of the New York ICCM) is stating that the school is "fully accredited" needs to be reported to the BPPE as these are false claims/statements and can result in the ICCM's operating license being revoked. Kip and his leaders are known for these type of deceptive practices like requiring their members' to solicit donations for church sponsored retreats, teen camps, conferences, etc. while wearing their green M.E.R.C.Y. shirts. M.E.R.C.Y. is the supposed "benevolent arm" of the ICC to "provide relief and care to the poor and needy" of the city. Any funds collected while wearing these shirts should go to the poor and needy and NOT to pay the outrageous registration fees for church events.
DeleteTo Anonymous July 13th, 2019-In response to your statement, "there are few students paying $6,000 a year..." You need to be reminded that this is a fictitious school. NO ONE should be paying 6 cents let alone 6k. Shame on you for trying to justify and defend a scam like the ICCM.
DeleteMike Patterson is the biggest DOUCHE BAG not only in the ICC but on the planet. Next time he starts spouting off about how "SOLD OUT" he, his wife and all the other members of the ICC supposedly are ask him to explain why he was 'SENT' to New York (Hint: It has to do with porn and masturbation). Funny that Mike created a purity fight club a couple of years ago that required anyone who masturbated to double their tithe (eg. membership dues) each week. No wonder he and Chenelle are in ghastly debt (LOL!!!).
DeleteNot only is Mike Patterson a "false brother" in the church universal, he's also a huge PR disaster for the ICC organization. In a recent Facebook thread that has since gone "viral" among ICC/ICOC members, Mike claims the ICC has "too many" elders for him to name. He cites Titus 1:5-7, “An elder must be blameless, married only once with believing children who are not accused of licentiousness or rebellious…” and then identifies a few of these elders (or "shepherds" as the ICC calls them) in the Los Angeles/New York church and says about 6 elders have been recently appointed in the Midwest ICC.
DeleteResearch on these supposed "elders" (ahem "shepherds") reveals that some have been married more than once and have children who are not only “unbelievers” (by ICC standards) but also identify with the LGBTQ lifestyle which, by the way, Mike would certainly consider licentious based on his incessant and obnoxious Facebook posts against homosexuality. So according to Titus (which Mike referenced), these folks don't qualify as elders. Sorry.
Mike's explanation that the ICC chooses to use "Shepherd vs. elder so as not to confuse us with the Church of Christ/Mormons" is hogwash. He knows full well that many (if not most) of these “shepherds” are BIBLICALLY UNQUALIFIED for the role of eldership and THAT’S WHY they're not referred to as elders.
This gives the ICC wiggle room to spin and deny (something they do very well) when the qualifications of these so called "elders" come into question. They'll undoubtedly claim, "We ‘never’ said they were elders. We’ve always maintained they were simply 'shepherds'".
The school has been setup for those in leadership roles to teach them to deepen their knowledge in the bible. Anyone outside of that with an interest in learning will have to pay.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also happy to live near Andrew Smellie. Sorry to bring any disappointment to the conspiracy theorists but he's not rolling in the "dough" or living lavishly. We hang out quite a bit and I myself have been curious about financial management in the ICC having read a lot about past issues in the ICOC.
DeleteThanks for commenting. For the record, do you know exactly how much Andrew Smellie makes? (I am guessing that you do not, as "the church" has always worked to keep that information as hidden as possible.)
DeleteSometimes we can learn a bit from history. For example, Steve Johnson used to drive around an old car, and it certainly didn't give the impression that he was making big money. However, at the time he was pulling in something like $300,000 per year in compensation from the church.
For the moment, the relatively low membership of the ICC means that there is less money to pay the evangelists. Whatever Andrew's current salary, it will continue to grow as the church grows in number. So go out there and share your faith! And don't forget to give your contribution! ;P
Thanks for commenting. It's also interesting to me to see ICC members vehemently assert that the ICCM is fully accredited, and claim that to say otherwise is persecution or slander or something of the like. It seems pretty clear that the image that is presented by leadership is that the ICCM is a real, accredited school, which it is not.
ReplyDeleteAnd agreed, your point about Kip's hypocrisy is well taken.
peter paul and luke and crew in paradise must be like what in the planet. How can anyone dare to claim to the truth and have the gall to become president. would jesus ever want a title or credit? no way man! Humble its the peoples truth and they should be able to question false teachings in the school. lets say topic of divorce and remarriage
ReplyDeleteAll that energy, spent studying fake topics, just to earn a fake degree. And even worse for the people who actually pay good money for the privilege.
DeleteSo a degree from the cult of Kip is about as useful as taking a course in Scientology a waste of money
ReplyDeleteCorrect, courses in the ICCM are completely and totally useless. You pay for cult indoctrination, only to receive a fake "degree" that is recognized nowhere by no-one.
Deletecan the other churches of christ attend this or only people from his chriatian sect?
ReplyDeleteWell, anecdotally, I know of one non-ICC member who tried to enroll in the ICCM. The ICCM contact person tried to convert the potential student to membership in the International Christian Church. When this potential student insisted that he was already a Christian, the ICCM rep then dissuaded him from enrolling. So, it seems that in practice, the International College of Christian Ministry is only open to members of Kip McKean's International Christian Church.
DeleteMaybe one day Kip will be rewarded an Oscar for his brilliant talent! And his business brain! :)
ReplyDeleteHas anyone actually seen their curriculum? It may not award an accredited degree but it does seem to help one gain in depth knowledge of the bible.
ReplyDeleteSome of the material is available online, rife with misspellings and grammatical errors and all (and for a Master's level class, no less). The material that is presented as "Master's" is approximately easy first-year introductory material from a "real," accredited school.
DeleteActually the salaries of each of the evangelists is easy to find out. You can simply ask one of them to see a bank statement. Also if you're curious about how the church spends its money, attend any one of their churches financial workshops. They are held in November every year in every one of their churches on the same day.
ReplyDeleteWelcome, current ICC member! Let me ask, have you ever actually found out the salary of an evangelist? No? Please tell me much do they make, in real, hard numbers. NO ICC church publishes this information, or even makes it available. Why would this be? Because if people knew how much of their contribution went to ministry salary and benefits, there would be a huge backlash, and ICC members would rightfully question the constant pressure to donate and sacrifice their own money. Why sacrifice your money to the max just so your ministry leader can live a lifestyle that you will never, ever afford? (PS, I have been to the financial meetings that you mentioned, and they DO NOT tell you how much the evangelist earns.)
DeleteThere is no church. It's held in hotels!!
DeleteI was an ICC member but left. The college is fake and a way to make money. How do you explain a 4 year degree after going to ICCM for 2 years. Most of whom did not graduate from high school.
ReplyDeleteI was also an ICC member the sad part is ICC is just like the old ICOC, the difference is that Kip has become more controlling after what happened to ICOC, he wants to make sure it does not happen to him again. He talks about the ICOC in all his preaching calling them the old movement, remnants, fall -aways. You have to be restored to God and apologies to the church if you were a member of ICOC and want to join ICC. I don't see any Godlyness in that man and the people he is training are just like him.
ReplyDeleteThey forced us to give 15% of tithe and 4times your monthly contribution every year. If you cannot, they preach about it and call you for meetings and tell you you need to come up with that money or cut your expenses. They treat you different if you don't come up with that money, they treat you as though you have committed a crime. People sell their properties and move in to live 5 people in a one bedroom apartment so that you can give the money to church. They read scriptures like "obey your leaders" if you don't have the cash. Yes I left ICC, false teaching and mind control and manipulation just like the old ICOC. It's very sad what Kip is doing to so many people seeking God.
ReplyDeleteIf it is a religious studies program, in our state of Washington, a church's education out-reach has every right to offer and grant diplomas in only the area of studies that represent their beliefs. So a religious institute can offer degrees in Biblical Studies, Theology, Ministry and the like. If they state on their web site or in their information packets that their degrees are not transferable, yet the student finds their course work suits their needs - then there is no harm done. It is not fraud, because they were upfront about their accreditation status. Any religious education institute can grant Honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees. There is no earned Doctor of Divinity degree. I did a lot of research in our state because one of my clients wanted to expand his ministry of 50 years to include an education out-reach. WA: RCW 28B.85.040
ReplyDeleteCompletion of program of study prerequisite to degree — Application of chapter. ( http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=28B.85.040 )
In Oregon, the state that has the strictest accreditation laws states this: http://www.oregonstudentaid.gov/oda-exempt-status-religious-exempt.aspx
"Religious Exempt Schools
Schools with a Religious Exemption are permitted by statute to offer specific degrees with exclusively religious titles approved by the ODA, but they need not meet all state academic standards. To qualify for an exemption, the school must meet requirements in ORS 348.594, as shown in 2005 advance sheets Chapter 546. Beyond those criteria, the state assumes no responsibility for the quality of these programs."
So religious organizations are allowed to grant degrees. It is up to the school and each individual state to determine what is legal and what is not. If they give a full disclosure of their accreditation status, then it is up to the student to attend or not to attend, weighing the factors and the course studies.
Anonymous April 8, 2015-The problem isn't that Kip started his own school, it's that he, Tim Kernan, Mike Patterson and everyone else involved in their pseudo-university are claiming that the school and their degrees are "accredited". Kip in his very words writes, "All of this work will be "accredited" as a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Ministry..." From the 2017 commencement ceremony, Tim asserts that "the ICCM is fully "accredited". Mike Patterson in a recent FB post dated 09/01/19 on Ryan Casarez page states the school is "accredited" in California then tried to wiggle out of it when he was challenged about the validity of this statement saying there are "different levels" of accreditation. Not when it comes to educational accreditation, Mike! A college/university is either accredited or it's not. In order for a post secondary institution to be accredited it MUST obtain accreditation through a national or regional accrediting body RECOGNIZED by the U.S. Department of Education which the ICCM has not done and cannot do. The California BPPE is not an accrediting agency. It's not even part of the Department of Education. It's a unit of the California Department of Consumer Affairs and it's basic function is to simply issue licenses to people (like Kip) who want to start their own school. ANYONE can start a school as long as they meet the BPPE's minimum standard/requirement. It's not hard.
DeleteThe Independent Baptists have a number of "Bible Colleges," one of the foremost being West Coast Baptist College. While their degrees mean nothing in the real world either, they do have a fairly rigorous curriculum. I have spoke to a couple of graduates and they actually got a pretty decent education. Just like Kip's college, they charge the big bucks, but they actually do get some financial benefit in that it gives them some "jack" when they go to an Independent Baptist Church. Interestingly enough, Independent Baptist Churches are completely autonomous.
ReplyDeleteDon't fret...do we trust that Jesus knows all about this? Then we know Kip will be held accountable for all the damage he has done and is doing in Jesus' name. Jesus is your Personal Advocate if you have been hurt by Kip. Kip was raised up to be destroyed. He is an object of God's wrath for what he does. Take solace that Jesus enlightened you to Kip's evil ways and that He will not stand to be misrepresented. Judgment is near for these deceivers who profit from their false gospel. Take heart...salvation is near for you!!
ReplyDeleteThe Boston ICCM is apparently a "tough" course...one of the questions on the test is apparently, "did you go out on a double date?"...a yes/no question.......
ReplyDeleteIndeed, gotta love free points/extra credit. On a side note, have you seen the real coursework. GOOD GRAVY! WAY harder than standard seminary.
DeleteAnonymous 09/15/17-LOL!!! Highly DOUBT it. If Kelly Bartholomew was issued a Master's Degree and then "voted" in as valedictorian (again, LOL!!!), the curriculum can't be that hard. All ICCM "graduates" are in for a rude awakening when they have to apply for real jobs and are hit with the realization that reputable employers/companies actually conduct thorough background checks and will call bogus on their fake degrees.
DeleteWhere in the world did you all get that people are being charged to go to the ICCM?
ReplyDeleteI'm in the ICC and was offered the opportunity to enroll two years back but I turned it down because I already attend a baptist seminary. The ICCM is a members-only leadership training program. You can get your degree in 1 to 2 years. The degree helps us to secure visas for missionary work.
So, the long story short is, not just anyone gets to attend and no one is paying for their degree despite what the website claims of $6000... I know this because I have friends that attend.
I second this message above. There is a very strict admissions process and it's not $6,000. hahaha The few is barely mentionable and often covered anyways.
DeleteTo Anonymous January 7th/June 15th: Per the ICCM website,"The tuition for each of the three (four month) trimesters of a calendar year will be $2,000 per trimester." So both of you are saying the ICCM website is incorrect despite it being clearly posted for the public to read? WOW! Maybe you should let Karen (nee Marcel) Gregory, know she needs to make a correction.
Deletereading all this makes me sad- why are we slandering him- ? pray for him the leaders an yourselves... let the one who is without sin cast the first stone ,stating the fact that the school is not accredited and giving information that is true and accurate so people can make an informed dec is one thing but this is just ugly and nasty and i think jesus is very sad when he died for all of us and had KIp never obeyed the Lord all those years ago none of us would have recd the message of CHRIST - we all go astray and make mistakes be careful how you judge-pray for him and yourselves
ReplyDeleteKip Mckean has publicly stated that his parents (who did not work for the church) paid for a significant portion of his children's education, and at least two of them had substantial scholarships.
ReplyDeleteThere are very few cases of members being encouraged to drop out of "regular" colleges to attend ICCM. Most ICCM students are dual-enrolled or were not in college to begin with.
To Anonymous July 13, 2019-Interesting. Did Kip's parents also pay for their education when all 3 attended the prestigious and very private Brentwood Preparatory Academy(Note: Arnold Schwarzenegger kids also went to this school) where annual tuition is over $37,000??? And regarding your claim that there are "very few cases of members being encouraged to drop out of regular colleges to attend the ICCM" is contrary to what Tim Kernan stated during his 2017 commencement speech where he proudly announced that many of these students have left their UC/State schools for the ICCM.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering why they addressed him as Dr. McKean. Don't of what. That guy has a B.S. in B.S. And to call himself that is a kick in the balls to any person who busted their ass to get a college education. I earned my college degree and I earned my education certification from Brandman University and San Diego County OE. Makes me glad again that I don't drink the ICC Kool Aid anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe ICCM is a hard earned degree. Most people who go through the program get a scholarship.
ReplyDeleteHard earned doesn’t mean accredited So… how will you use your degree outside of the church? Exactly, you can’t.
DeleteI went through the Bachelor's program. It was by no means hard. Majority was literally just memorizing. Absolutely waste of 2 years. Oh, I also learned a lot about how to tell people they are going to hell if they aren't in the ICC.
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